On July 4th, 1999, I was proceeding home from an
Independence Day celebration in Maryland. I was stopped
by a police officer from a local Maryland town. I had a
portable tape recorder with me and recorded the traffic
stop. Below is a written transcript of the stop, and
here is Part 1 (867 KB) and
Part 2 (1384 KB) of the
recording. There are 2 parts because there were 2 separate
discussions of substantial content I had with the police,
some 30-40 minutes apart. The quality is not great, given
the environment on the scene, but it is understandable.
I censored a portion of the Part 2 audio to protect the privacy
of certain uninvolved associates of mine. Specifically
their names and phone numbers. I've replaced that portion
of the recording with a distinctive tone.
The corresponding traffic court date was September 28, 1999.
I obtained the official certified audio transcript from the
District Court of Maryland. It's of very high quality and
it's available in its entirety
(2799 KB), but I have not transcribed it (and have no
plans to do so).
The audio was converted into digital format using RealNetworks
Inc. RealProducer G2(TM). To obtain a player to hear this
recording, visit
http://www.real.com
Since this is the first audio recordings I've made available,
I'm open to other media format suggestions.
Below is an transcript of the traffic stop.
Key:
NM: Neil McIver
PO1: Officer Thorn
PO2: A Maryland State Trooper, unknown name
Red Text: My thoughts in hindsight.
[Begin Part 1(867 KB)]
PO1: How ya doing?
NM: Alright, how are you?
PO1: Okay. I pulled you over because you were going a little fast back there. Do you realize that?
NM: Not really
PO1: Okay do you know the speed limit through town sir?
NM: Well, I just passed a 40 MPH sign right there
PO1: Right back there 40 acrossed the road from that.
NM: Right
PO1: I got you coming down the railroad tracks.
NM: Okay
PO1: It's only thirty, I got you doing fifty.
NM: Fifty?
PO1: Fifty.
NM: I would contest that.
PO1: you saying I'm making it up or you don't agree with me?
NM: Well I guess I don't agree...
PO1: I got you on calibrated radar. I need your license and registration please.
NM: Okay. My stuff's in the trunk.
PO1: Okay that's fine.
NM: Do you mind if I record this conversation, sir?
PO1: Do whatever you like, sir.
NM: Okay..... I'm from PA.
PO1: Excuse me?
NM: I'm from Pennsylvania.
PO1: I see that.... Is that a repair order in there?
NM: I'm sorry?
PO1: It looks like a repair order in there.
NM: Yeah, that's from a long time ago.... By the way, in this situation, am I required to give this to you?
PO1: Absolutely, that's correct. License and registration.
NM: Okay. You are ordering me to give it to you, then?
PO1: Yes sir.
NM: okay
PO1: Right now I'm asking, okay?
NM: Right now you are asking?
PO1: If you're giving it, that's fine, but if you're not, then I'm going to order it, okay? your license and registration.
NM: Alright, if you are asking me then I don't have to comply.
PO1: Then I'm ordering
NM: You are ordering... Okay, just for the record you are ordering me to give this to you.
PO1: Do you have a license and registration?
NM: I have a registration.
PO1: How about a license?
NM: I have ... I'm from Pennsylvania, and I'll tell you right now sir... here's the registration.
PO1: Okay. You be honest with me and I'll be honest with you.
NM: Okay, I'll be honest with you. I'm from Pennsylvania, and Pennsylvania has refused to accept my application for a driver's license.
PO1: You don't have your license.
NM: Pennsylvania has refused to accept my application because I have no social security number.
PO1: Okay, so...
NM: Let me give you this. This sir, you can see is labeled "driver license".
PO1: That's not a driver license.
NM: It's correspondence I have with the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation, Pennsylvania Bureau of Driver Licensing. Concerning my ongoing fight to get them to accept my application for a license.
PO1: Okay.
NM: Okay. The Pennsylvania State police are aware that I have no driver's license.
PO1: Okay.
NM: I have put them on notice, and I have asked them to come talk to me if they feel I am breaking the law. They know I'm driving, and they know I have no license.
PO1: They know you have no license, yet they have issued you nothing that says you can drive.
NM: Well, they have issued me no license, and they have not said whether I can or cannot drive.
PO1: Okay.
NM: Now I would like to also ... I want to present this to you.
PO1: Okay, I'm not going to read that, I don't have time to read over that.
NM: Okay, for the record, I am presenting this to you.
PO1: That's great, I need a license. That doesn't do anything.
NM: Okay And I'm also letting you know that driving is a limited right, it is not a privilege that the state cannot unreasonably restrict from me.
PO1: Okay.
NM: Okay. And I will present to you. this....
[garbled]
PO1: Okay, listen, I don't have time to read all that, obviously. Okay, I have a job to do out here.
If you do not have a license, you don't have a license.
NM: I do not have a driver's license.
PO1: You can go ahead and put all that away. This vehicle is registered to you correct?
NM: Yes
PO1: Okay, what's your middle name, Mr. McIver
NM: My middle name is John.
PO1: So your name is Cornelius John McIver?
NM: Correct.
PO1: Okay, and what is your date of birth, sir?
NM: You are asking me or demanding?
PO1: I'm demanding your date of birth.
NM: My date of birth is November seven, sixty-four.
PO1: Are you hispanic, caucasion, what are you?
NM: Just for the record, these questions are... you know...what's my compulsion to answer these questions?
PO1: Okay, this is why I need this information. I need to run your full name, I need your sex, race and D-O-B. Because there might be somebody with your same name. I need to differentiate between... .If there's another Cornelius John. McIver out there, that's how I differentiate that you are the one that's born on eleven seven sixty-four. Because there might be more than one person with the same name out there.
NM: Okay, all right, so you are running a background check on me?
PO1: I'm running a check through the MVA. Motor Vehicle Administration. See what your current condition is toward having a license.
NM: Okay.
PO1: Okay?
NM: Alright.
PO1: Okay. Otherwise, you can go ahead and put all that away and I'm going to run this check.
NM: For the record I do want to present you with this case, This is Thompson verses Smith, which makes it clear that driving is a not a privilege s a right which is subject to state restriction, reasonable restriction, and for the record, I have been unlawfully and unconstitutionally refused a driver's license.
PO1: I don't get in to all of that. Okay.
NM: For the record, I am presenting this to you.
PO1: That's fine, that's something you'll have to bring up in court, okay...
NM: Okay.
PO1: Okay. Just go ahead and put that all away [garbled] back up have a seat in your vehicle, and I'll be right with you.
NM: Alright.
[End Part 1]
[Begin Part 2 (1384 KB)]
PO2: Excuse me sir
NM: Yes
PO2: Did you have a Maryland license or a Pennsylvania license.
NM: Okay, first before... I am recording this conversation.
PO2: Okay, that's fine
NM: May I ask your name.
PO2: My name is Trooper [garbled] of the State Police.
Always always always ask/demand a
card from any government agent/officer that wants to talk.
Do not depend on an audio recording to pick it all up. At
least get a badge number, and if a card can't be obtained
for any reason, at the very least repeat the officers name &
any other identifying info into the recorder for extra
insurance.
NM: Is that the Maryland State Police
PO2: Yes, sir
NM: Okay
PO2: Did you have a Maryland or a Pennsylvania license. Okay because
this is what's happening. Your record is coming back with expired ...
expired license, I think it's expired license for Maryland. Did you
have something to do with Ohio license?
NM: Ohio? Not in a long, long time
That question shocked me. I had an Ohio
license for a couple years while attending college in Ohio back
around 1987-1989. (Maryland license renewals from out of state
were a bureaucratic pain -- even back then). I turned in the
OH license and renewed my Maryland licens during Christmas break
while back in Maryland in 1989.
I thought that they must have run a nationwide check, but I later
obtained a copy of my Maryland record, and found the surrender of
the Ohio license noted there. But other accounts convince me they
do indeed conduct nationwide checks at traffic stops.
PO2: But you did have an Ohio license before?
NM: Okay am I...
PO2: That's coming up with expired also. Your coming up with expired Maryland and expired Ohio license, no Pennsylvania record at all.
NM: Right. Are you ... okay you're asking me questions here. What is my compulsion to answer them?
PO2: Well you don't have a license so you can't continue driving tonight sir.
NM: I would contest ... the fact is as I already pointed out to the
other officer, I don't know his name, but the situation is this. I
have applied or attempted to apply for a driver's license in
Pennsylvania.
From a "Right to Travel" perspective, this
is absolutely the wrong response. Instead, I might have
responded with "Oh? By what authority am I not permitted to
drive?" The officer here
made a legal conclusion about how the law applied to me, which is
something he, as an executive officer, is not qualified to do. Only
a judicial officer (a judge) can make that determination, and only
after a trial. At the scene I stood accused of, at worst, a crime,
but remain innocent until proven guilty. By informing me I was not
permitted to drive, he was enforcing a conviction in advance of the
trial.
PO2: Okay
NM: I do not have a social security number.
PO2: Okay
NM: Pennsylvania refused to accept my application for a license. They did not refuse me a license, they refused to accept my application for one. I've put them on notice under the Privacy Act of 1974 that my rights cannot be deprived me for not disclosing a social security number. Now I've also put Pennsylvania on notice that I would hold them responsible for any damages I sustain, okay and that my rights cannot be deprived of me.
PO2: I don't know the whole situation as far why they are not giving you a license or anything like that. But you currently don't have a license, okay because it's expired. you have a license but it's expired. That does not permit you to drive.
NM: I do not have a license.
PO2: Okay, so your not permitted to drive, okay. You have an expired Maryland license and you're coming up with an expired Ohio license also, okay, whether you had a Ohio license long time ago and let it expire and then got a Maryland license and let that expire, your license is now expired you have no valid driver's license at this point, okay so you're not permitted to drive anymore tonight. Do you have someone you can call to pick you up at this location?
NM: At this location .... There are people I could call.
PO2: Okay I can call the barracks on our radio, they can call them and have them respond out here and pick you up.
NM: For the record, I want to let you know that you're doing this because I have no social security number, and ultimately...
PO2: Listen, I'm not doing this because you don't have a social security number. I'm doing this-- I'm doing this because you have an expired license you're license is not currently valid it is expired, okay, understand what I'm saying, you had a Maryland license, right? It expired in November of ninety-eight, I think?
NM: I believe so.
PO2: It expired late in the year 98, okay just remember what came up over the MVA system. Okay so you currently do not have a valid license which Maryland law does not permit you to drive without a valid license.
NM: Okay I want to reserve the right to inspect Maryland law to see how it pertains to... because I'm not a Maryland resident.
PO2: That's fine. That's what court is for, okay and you'll receive a citation to go to court and your can go to court and pay it you can do whatever you want, the officer will explain to you that you can do that, and that's what that's for. But I'm just explaining what will happen tonight. Okay. What going to happen is you will not be able to drive from this point any further to whatever point you were continuing on to, okay, because you don't have a valid license. It has nothing to do with your social security number or anything like that, it's that you don't have a valid license at this time. You are not permitted to drive from this point further.
NM: Okay if you are not permitting me then, I understand that you are not permitting me to drive.
PO2: And if you would like, I can get you a phone number of someone to call you and I can call the barracks who in return will call that person and have them respond out here. You can park your car here, you can walk up right up there at the smoke-house they have a pay phone I think back there, back there at the bowling alley area, I'm not sure if the inside been locked up or but there's a pay phone there. You can call someone to come get you. They can drive your jeep, because your jeep is ...your registration on your jeep through Pennsylvania is valid okay so they can come here. If you want 2 people to come one of them can drive yours back, but what I'm telling you is that you, yourself are not permitted to drive.
NM: Okay I understand you are not permitting me to drive further. Let the record show that. I have a phone number for you. 410
[edited]
PO2: Okay, and you want him to come out here and pick you up?
NM: Yes
Okay
PO2: You want him to bring somebody else to come out to pick you
up, They can drive your jeep also?
NM: He should be.... he should be able to bring somebody, I hope.
I didn't get your name, I'm sorry sir?
PO1: I'm Officer Thorn
NM: Thorn.
PO1: Okay, you ready?
NM: Ready for what?
PO1: I'm issuing you two citations, two tickets. Number one the
first reason I pulled you over is for speeding, okay? I got
you on radar doing 50 in a 30 mile per hour safety zone...
number two you were driving on an expired license. Apparently
you did have a license at one time in Maryland?
NM: I did have a license at one time in Maryland.
PO1: It has expired.
NM: It has expired. I don't maintain that I was driving on an
expired ... as I understand it, an expired license is not a
license.
PO1: That's correct.
NM: In which case I would be driving with no license.
Helping the officer ensure that he writes me proper citations
is something I probably don't need to do. While I had no
care at all about the difference in the amount of the fine,
It certainly is to my advantage if the officer writes a
defective citation.
PO1: If I wrote you for driving with no license it would be a
310 dollar fine.
NM: Okay.
PO1: I'm not writing you for that.
NM: Okay.
PO1: I'm writing you for driving on an expired license, which is
a fifty dollar fine. Okay? I need you to sign at the bottom of
the ticket. It's not an admission of guilt. It's just saying
that you got this citation.
NM: It's just that I've gotten the citation?
PO1: That's correct.
NM: And again, I want to present all this documentation to you.
PO1: Okay sir I don't have all night to read all that, obviously.
If you are going to contest it this is how it works. The tickets I'm
giving you, you have 15 days to pay. If you don't pay them.
you'll automatically be given a court date.
NM: Okay
PO1: Okay. When you get that court date, it will tell you where
to appear, when to appear, date and time, that's when you can
present all that, in .... court. Okay?
NM: Okay
PO1: Okay, all the way at the bottom, sign your signature there.
NM: I will read first. That is not my driver license number.
PO1: That's what came back through Maryland, that's what I have
for the record. That's what came back expired for Maryland.
NM: Now if I sign that, am I saying that's my driver license number?
PO1: All you do when you sign this citation is saying that you received a receipt of the citation.
It is not an admission of guilt. All that says is that you received it. It doesn't mean you are guilty.
NM: Okay.
PO1: Comparing the numbers. See the first number there?
NM: These are carbon copy things, sometimes when you sign...
PO1: I get this, this and this copy, you'll get the rest.
NM: Okay.
PO: That's the first one.
NM: I was just afraid the carbon would go through.
PO1: The carbon will go through on all these copies.
NM: Right
PO1: Not the whole book. ...... Like I said, these are your
copies. And this is the second one. Flip it over. That is
for the speeding. You understand everything on that? That's
a 135 dollar citation. This one is going to be for driving on an
expired license, and it's a $50 citation. Okay, you want to
look that over and check everything, and here's your pen.
NM: Okay.
PO1: Okay. Pen please. Okay, there's your copy of that. Let me
give you back your vehicle registration. Okay anything you have
questions on?
NM: And you are of what department?
PO1: Hampstead police department.
NM: Hampstead police.
PO1: That's correct.
NM: Okay.
PO1: Okay. Have a good night. Drive safe. You got a ride coming
for him, right? Okay, sit tight. Who do you have coming do you
know how long it will take?
NM: Maybe 25 minutes, something like that, plus whatever it takes
for him to get ready?
PO1: Are you going to wait here for him or do you want to wait up
the road?
NM: Well I want him to take my jeep, I mean....
PO1: I guess he's going to bring someone else out here, then?
NM: Yeah, I hope so. Was that mentioned to him or...
PO1: I didn't get the phone call to him their busy at the barracks
right now and, as soon as they get back to me.
NM: I think I'd prefer to stay here. I want to stay with my jeep,
yeah
PO1: That's fine. We'll just tell them you'll be right here.
NM: Oh, right, right, okay.
[End Part 2]
[Begin Traffic Court Audio (2799 KB)]
Things to note:
- The judges response to my question about whether an expired
license can be suspended;
- The officer's statement that I had surrenderred the license
and registration upon request (and not upon demand);
- The judge acting as an attorney for the officer;
- The judge sustaining his own objection;
- Me asserting my rights, being a royal pain in the butt,
and having a whole lot fun.
Hindsight:
If I had the chance to do it all again, I'd do a better job.
I had evidence in the form of a tape recording the officers
testimony was inaccurate. Had I merely presented that
evidence to the judge, I could have impeached the officer
as a witness and possibly had both charges thrown out. Just
by having a recording of the event gave me a great advantage,
but I didn't realize just how great until after it was too late.
But more to the principle of the matter,
I tried to fight this whole thing on the basis of SSN discrimination,
but it didn't work. I was nice, cooperative, and I think quite
reasonable given the circumstances, and I tried to "work with the
system", but the system doesn't want to work with me. The
pro-government status quo seems to maintain that I am not allowed to
use my car without a social security number, that I am at the
mercy of the government of my state and that I should beg them for
the special privilege of living my life the way I want to live it.
Of course, that's completely out of the question.
My two chioces are to continue to complain that Pennsylvania won't
give me permission to excercise a right, or to simply promote the
obvious fact that I don't need permission to exercise a right.
If I have a right to use the road, I don't need permission, so
why ask for it, and why complain if I don't get it?
As of this writing, over 3 months since the administrative trial,
I have not paid any fine, but neither
have I received any communication from the State of Maryland about
the alleged fine going unpaid. I did surrender the expired
license back to Maryland, which might explain the silence, but
I nonetheless find it a bit deafening. I can't just let things
hang like that. This chapter isn't finished yet.
Neil McIver